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09 April 2010 @ 12:27 am
 
Ummm...

I was enjoying this episode right up until the last 5 WTF minutes. \o?

The Apocatown was kind of creepy. Loved the ominous camera angles on the church! The phone call to Castiel felt contrived (in that S2 "Let's call the Roadhouse every episode, like we can't function without them" kind of way), but it was worth it for Castiel's voicemail message and his later appearance.

It was kind of neat to see Sam and Dean fighting as part of a group, especially given how alone they've felt these last three seasons. It was also good to hear Dean admit out loud that John was not a great father. He's been denying that for years, but it only left him with the option of blaming himself, and it's nice to see him finally get that in perspective. Last week we had the clear implication that John either had a serious drinking problem, or a problem coping with the holidays. That feels much more like the S1 John we knew than the more recent episodes with young!John, which seem revisionist and false. No-one came back from Vietnam with the innocence and light-hearted demeanor of episode 5.13 young!John. The actor is handsome as all get-out, but the character doesn't seem anything like he should.

Castiel was funny this episode, and one of the things I DO like about his disillusion is that we can see how he could become the stoned-out Love Master of the future. It actually seems possible. Plus, who doesn't love the awkwardness of a line like, "And Sam, of course, is an abomination." If ever there was a "Standing right here!" moment, that was it. Poor Sam.

The ending, though... I was okay with everything until Dean drove off on a wild hair to see Lisa. THAT part I didn't believe for a moment. You can't, as a show, just say "And now _this_ happens" and assume that it works. This was abrupt and OOC. Dean seriously ditched Sam and drove hours and hours to just show up on Lisa's doorstep and make this pronouncement before driving off again? Who DOES that except in movies?

If you're going to pull something like that off, you have to lay a firmer foundation for it. Flashing a brief reference to their past during the Previouslies doesn't cut it.

And if THIS episode was the motivation for Dean going "Michael stupid" (as Sam so perfectly put it), I can't buy that either. All Dean and Sam have to do is both say No. And considering that neither of them wants what will happen if they say Yes, they'd need to be beyond the point of sanity to change their minds.

All the anvils in the world won't make that true if you don't write it that way. :(

In other viewing, I realized late last night that I'd totally spaced out watching V, and tonight I discovered I'd forgotten flashForward was back. *kicks brain*

We DID finally see last week's Fringe, though, which was the episode I've been waiting for ever since the implications of the S1 finale. Great makeup job on John Noble, who looked and sounded genuinely youngish (he kind of reminded me of Sam!) And was it just me, or did his earlier assistant look an awful lot like the blond version of Astrid? Great storyline for this one, and very moving. *sniffle* Can't wait to catch up on this week's show too.

 
 
 
space_raider182 on April 9th, 2010 07:47 am (UTC)
That Supernatural ending sounds like it sucked. Glad I didn't stick around. I would have been pissed if I'd missed the last fifteen minutes of a Matlock rerun for that.

xoxo
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on April 9th, 2010 08:00 am (UTC)
It was good up until that codette, and then it felt as if the show had been hijacked. WHAT was Kripke thinking there? If you don't have the time to make a development believable, don't go there!
space_raider182 on April 9th, 2010 08:09 am (UTC)
hahaha, but hasn't that been Kripke's MO for about a season and a half? The way the story-line has been progressing as of late is somehow reminding me of Lost, which I made myself stop watching two years ago. It's just randomness that I wish wasn't happening but I know I have to go for the ride if I want answers, but they're probably not gonna be as epic as they're being built up to be anyway. If that makes sense.

I feel like we're being set up for a let down. This arc just isn't working for me.
xoxo
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on April 9th, 2010 07:27 pm (UTC)
It's just randomness that I wish wasn't happening but I know I have to go for the ride if I want answers, but they're probably not gonna be as epic as they're being built up to be anyway. If that makes sense.
No, I know exactly what you mean. There's a "tailspin" feeling to everything after S2 (for S3, mostly because of the writers' strike), and since I don't like this story arc anyway I'm only going to be satisfied when it ends and then only if the boys are both alive and well.
space_raider182 on April 11th, 2010 06:29 am (UTC)
This is true. Actually, I thoroughly enjoyed S3, writers' strike or no. Which, Im assuming, is not a compliment to the writers this season. (sorry, Krip)
And yes tailspin is a perfect description of how S4 and S5 feels. Once again, not a good sign.
Ha, personally, I made the decision back in S4 that I don't have a problem with both or either of the boys dying for good at the end of the series, but as soon as Bobby goes, Im done watching. Seriously.
xoxo
cindy: cartoon headtsuki_no_bara on April 9th, 2010 08:47 pm (UTC)
i just have to interrupt to tell you i love your icon. aw, chekov. *pats his vee wee head*
space_raider182 on April 11th, 2010 06:38 am (UTC)
HA! Thanks! I know right? Chekov is so adorable at 17. I love vim< him ^^
xoxo
I'm Mulder, She's Scully: bigbangrunedgirl on April 9th, 2010 01:28 pm (UTC)
I was fine with everything but that WTF little five minute trip out of character to see some random woman he hooked up with years ago. I think they were trying to use that as a means to show Dean coming to terms once and for all with all he will never have, but that really would not require a frantic late night drive across the country for a two minute hello. To reassure random woman about something she wasn't even concerned about, no less! Writing fail :/
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Doomed Winchestershalfshellvenus on April 9th, 2010 05:34 pm (UTC)
Word on all of that!

It reminded me of S4, where they tacked on something at the end of the episode that really didn't belong (several times, it was "Revisit Dean's manPain and milk the readers' emotions").

The sudden impulse to lie to Sam, drive across the country, and make this epic pronouncement on Lisa's doorstep (as if she'd been waiting her whole life for Dean and never had anything else going on) and then bail again was just wrong, and very badly written.

Someone else mentioned Cassie in relation to this. Dean barely knew Lisa, though he's started to fantasize randomly about some magical white-picket-fence life he could have with her. But he actually knew and loved Cassie (even if she rejected him, which is why viewers hate her). His history (such as it was) with Lisa doesn't compare with his history with Cassie. We know how hard it is for Dean to trust outsiders, and he really let his guard down fully with Cassie.

Lisa was still at the "hot weekend" stage with him.

Not to mention that it's unbelievable that she wouldn't probably be married by now. Pretty, smart, capable-- not exactly the kind of person who usually gets left on the shelf, you know?
space_raider182 on April 11th, 2010 06:35 am (UTC)
I like your observations about Dean and Cassie. Very astute of you.
Just as a side note, from what I've heard of the ending for 99 Problems, Dean's big "moment" with Lisa wasn't so much about realizing his picket fence dream (which, once again, was a pretty sudden drop on us from the writers) will never come true or whatever, but has more to do with Ben and what his (supposed) bloodline through Dean means for the apocalypse. Winchester blood is special, and I believe Ben is going to have to play a part eventually.
xoxo
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Doomed Winchestershalfshellvenus on April 12th, 2010 04:33 pm (UTC)
but has more to do with Ben and what his (supposed) bloodline through Dean means for the apocalypse. Winchester blood is special, and I believe Ben is going to have to play a part eventually.

God, I hope not. There's nothing like expanding and beating to death an aspect of a show that you already don't like... :(
Antyantychan on April 9th, 2010 03:17 pm (UTC)
You know, I like Lisa, and I feel the actress has real chemistry with Jensen. I almost went, "C'mon, tell him he's your kid, after all."

But, like with a lot of things, it felt like they're pulling past fan favourites and other secondary characters back out of their asses just so it seems all "connected" and part of a big smart arc they'd thought of years ago.

But Cas. Always hilarious.
Antyantychan on April 9th, 2010 03:33 pm (UTC)
Also, I had an epiphany recently on the bus:

Dean: "I'm saying no."
Angels: "We'll kill Sam."
Lucifer: "I'll bring him back to life."
Sam: "I'm saying no."
Lucifer: "I'll kill Dean."
Angels: "We'll bring him back to life."
*pause*
Lucifer+Angels: "We'll kill everybody!"
Sam: "That'll most likely happen anyway."
Dean: "Yeah, dudes, dumb threat."
SamnDean: "Okay, so, we'll just move to Stanford where Sam can teach at college and Dean open a garage. Kthxbye."
Angels+Lucifer: "Must. Work. On. Blackmail."
Kripke+Gamble: "Well...crap."
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Laugh SPNhalfshellvenus on April 9th, 2010 07:39 pm (UTC)
Hahahaha!

Yes, please! \o/
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on April 9th, 2010 07:35 pm (UTC)
I like her too, but there's no "depth" to their relationship-- especially not of the "drive multi-states like a bat out of hell to deliver Important Message" kind.

But, like with a lot of things, it felt like they're pulling past fan favourites and other secondary characters back out of their asses just so it seems all "connected" and part of a big smart arc they'd thought of years ago.
Yeah. It's nice to see some of the characters (though NOT nice to kill off Ellen and Jo, and so unnecessarily too), but it doesn't hold together as well as the writers seem to think.
cindy: the dean show - sam sez tsuki_no_bara on April 9th, 2010 08:40 pm (UTC)
yeah, that last five minutes was beyond ooc. all of a sudden dean's thinking about lisa and ben? and feels a burning need to drive halfway across the country and, what, tell her he wishes things had turned out differently and he could actually have a relationship with her? and now he's going to tell zachariah sure, i'll let michael ride me, just make sure my one night stand and our kid are taken care of? it left me with a massive dose of WTF, KRIPKE? and WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM? he's doing a lot of telling and not enough showing.

altho i admit i was waiting for something like that to happen, considering they finished up the main storyline with about ten minutes to spare, and they always use those extra minutes for some mytharc-related emotional string-pulling.

on the other hand, drunk!castiel cracked me up (and also "it's funnier in enochian") and his deadpan "sam, of course, is an abomination" was kinda funny. poor sam is right. and i liked most of the episode. (partly because it had michael shanks! looking all scruffy and backwoods!)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Deanhalfshellvenus on April 12th, 2010 04:37 pm (UTC)
and now he's going to tell zachariah sure, i'll let michael ride me, just make sure my one night stand and our kid are taken care of? it left me with a massive dose of WTF, KRIPKE? and WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM? he's doing a lot of telling and not enough showing.
Yes! I hate it when the show takes "shortcuts" to get to a point they suddenly want to make. Work that story tighter, tease it in earlier, whatever. But just shoehorning the giant WTF into the end of the show doesn't work.

Fanfic writers generally know better than to pull that kind of shit, and I hate it when the show is less careful with its characters and canon than random Internet fans who don't even get paid to write truer and more loving versions of the show.

and i liked most of the episode. (partly because it had michael shanks! looking all scruffy and backwoods!)
I really don't know who he is, though I've heard several other people mention him. Was the the hunter that turned on his partner, or the reverend?
cindy: what were you THINKING? (by rjcardinal)tsuki_no_bara on April 13th, 2010 12:47 am (UTC)
he was the father of the kid who was killed under the impala. the woman who was about to douse everyone with kerosene at the end and light the match, that was his wife.

(he was in stargate. and burn notice. and possibly something else i can't immediately remember. he's in canadian-tv-show actor bingo. :D )

>>and I hate it when the show is less careful with its characters and canon than random Internet fans who don't even get paid to write truer and more loving versions of the show.<<

and also? they made a point to set the episode in blue earth and THERE WAS NO MENTION OF PASTOR JIM ANYWHERE. and considering the episode was ABOUT A RELIGIOUS CONGREGATION AND ITS MINISTER? HUGE oversight there.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: TVhalfshellvenus on April 13th, 2010 02:10 am (UTC)
OOH! Was he Viktor in Burn Notice?

You're right about Blue Earth- several other people picked up on that detail. Way to ignore your own canon, show! :(
cindy: fangirltsuki_no_bara on April 13th, 2010 03:46 am (UTC)
yes! victor! (i couldn't remember his name. >.< ) totally slashable with michael if you're into that kind of thing! he makes a good psychokiller. :D
Maz (or foxxy!): Cas...temptationtuesdaeschild on April 10th, 2010 02:57 pm (UTC)
Oh! 'V' starts over here on Tuesday!! I used to love the 80s version so I hope I'm not disappointed!

I'm also loving Season 5 SPN!! By turns hilarious; by turns scary as shit!!

Hope you and Mr Halfshell are good, sweetheart. I haven't been in LJ as much as I'd like to be lately but it's good to drop by and touch base! :)

The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: TVhalfshellvenus on April 12th, 2010 04:40 pm (UTC)
! I wonder if you'll get to see V in a single stretch, instead of with a big yawning hiatus in the middle? That would definitely work better, and the episodes will definitely be "ready" on your side of the pond.

Good casting in this version (love Elizabeth Mitchell, and I keep looking up Morris Chestnut at imdb.com because I randomly run across him in stuff- character actor- and he's way handsome and has a voice that'll make you swoon).

HSH and I are doing well, and we're glad his radiation therapy is over! Now it's just recovering from the toll the cancer treatment took on him. He's got some hair back (not the hairdo he would have chosen so far, but it looks like he could have chosen it), and the nausea is mostly gone. We're headed to Hawaii in May!

I need to go back and read about your encounter with The Queen! I saw the initial post, but I don't think I peeked at any pictures. :) ♥
blackcat333_99blackcat333_99 on April 10th, 2010 07:50 pm (UTC)
The Lisa scene worked for me rather well. Partly performance based, I acknowledge, but then thinking about the why Lisa, why now? question... Dean's suicidal. She was his goodbye note that he couldn't leave for anyone, that note most suicides leave saying goodbye and why. She's a distant enough connection that Sam's not going to ping on her as a place to look for Dean. Also... unlike Cassie, she did accept him AFTER learning the truth about him. He doesn't have much to hang a connection onto with her -- as you note they really are still virtual strangers -- but it's more than he's gotten from any other woman. So... why not her?

Miles vary, obviously. But after I'd thought about it... it worked for me.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Deanhalfshellvenus on April 12th, 2010 04:54 pm (UTC)
The performances were good, but the show just didn't lead up to it well enough for me. And while Kripke has tried hard to tell us that Dean's at the breaking point, that's because Kripke wants him to be there. I need more convincing. I need to see Dean losing his ability to make rational decisions altogether (aside from this WTF coda), because Dean choosing to let Michael take him over ONLY ends the Apocalypse if Lucifer finds a vessel, and his target vessel is Sam.

So this ultimately comes down to Dean choosing to risk the possibility of killing his own brother, who at the moment shows no more signs of being evil than, say, Bobby.

All Dean has to do is say "No," and he removes any reason whatsoever for Sam to say "Yes." It's simple math, and having set up that premise, Kripke has to make the cave-in come about believably for it to work for me.

Given that I don't want to see that, and never have, I need more persuading than most, it's true.

It also inherently bugs me that Dean is choosing some barely-more-than-a-one-night-stand woman from the past to lay this on rather than opening up to Sam and letting Sam help him through this. THAT part isn't necessarily OOC, but I hate it all the same.

BUT... I'm glad it did work for you (and I know it did for some other viewers as well). I wish I were in that happy, shiny camp myself right now!
blackcat333_99blackcat333_99 on April 13th, 2010 01:27 am (UTC)
Dean choosing to let Michael take him over ONLY ends the Apocalypse if Lucifer finds a vessel, and his target vessel is Sam....

All Dean has to do is say "No," and he removes any reason whatsoever for Sam to say "Yes." It's simple math, and having set up that premise, Kripke has to make the cave-in come about believably for it to work for me.


Ah, but that is exactly why this episode worked for me in establishing why Dean would go 'Michael stupid', lol. In my own ep review I cited several different parallels between this ep and The End -- and Dean was clearly noticing it too. So for him to conclude that 2014 was coming about anyway, even without Sam being Lucifer's vessel, didn't feel unreasonable at all, but rather logical. Of course, I think he still missed a few pertinent points of consideration, but that's also understandable considering everything he's trying to juggle in his mind. And yeah, stupid to not include Sam's input more, but his trust issues with Sam have not miracuously resolved, and that is still a factor in his willingness to open up to him.

Sorry it's not quite working for you -- maybe next week will fill in some of those missing details. I'm so excited for #100!
fiery_fox2fiery_fox2 on April 12th, 2010 03:24 pm (UTC)
Two things: drunk!Castiel rules the world. *lol* And Show; Kripke; WTF? Even I, with my usual tender heart that gets yanked on all the time with SPN, was like, "Um, what the hell is going on here?"
Why would Kripke just tie the ending of the episode up into such a...non-neat way? Dean going to see Lisa just made no sense. Why would he suddenly have an epiphany like that--unless he's really losing his shit, and sick of the war, and just wants it to be over?
At any rate, this eppy, while good, didn't make me happy with TPTB at the end. Ah, well, such is life. Let's hope that next week will be more...um...coherent?
;)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Doomed Winchestershalfshellvenus on April 12th, 2010 05:28 pm (UTC)
I loved drunk!Castiel here, though I felt bad for him (a whole liquor store!).

The ending was so poorly done, and "wanting the war to be over" (when the war apparently is really a pissing match between Michael and Lucifer)... doesn't make sense when the likely price of it being over is killing Sam. :(

I hate it when the show does "dumb." There's been plenty of time to write this direction of the show, if that's what Kripke wants, but he's been so busy dinking around with comedic episodes and randomness that he hasn't done it. Work harder!