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17 September 2009 @ 11:11 pm
SPN 5x02  


*sigh....*

I loved seeing Rufus and Ellen again (I 'ship the Rufus/shotgun OTP, even if he's NOT sitting on his porch keeping demons and zombies off the property line), and there was some cleverness to the story line.

But the ending?

God, I was afraid of the show going off in this direction, but in more of an abstract way. I didn't expect Kripke to literally kick Sam out of the Impala and replace him with Castiel. Especially not in the second episode of the season.

It's as if he took everything that was wrong with Season Four, and decided to base the bulk of S5 around it.

Sam's going to sit out the Apocalypse instead of guarding Dean's back? Seriously? Man up and bring your A-game, dude. That self-reflection might be okay some other time, but not while the skies are burning and your brother's off to try to save the world singlehandedly.

That is not the Sam I know and love.

And Dean, letting Sam go that easily-- because Sam's just a distraction now? When that might be the last he sees of Sam, ever again, Dean's just going to let him walk away?

Who the F**K are you, and what have you done with Dean Winchester?

I know that a person could make the case that Dean's beaten-down and heartbroken and blah-blah-blah, but that's not what it feels like.

Sam and Dean being disinterested in each other is not why I fell in love with this show.

Dean's love and worry for Sam is a big part of what redeems him from his tendency to be a jackass (mad hunting and people-saving skillz aside).

This Dean is just another cardboard hero, fighting a war I never wanted to see get off the ground in the first place.

After the disconnection all through Season Three AND Season Four... this is where the show's taking things? I suffered through two seasons of this asshat dynamic ruining the Sam-n-Dean love, and Kripke's making it worse?

Dude... you suck. :(

 
 
 
jumpuphigh on September 18th, 2009 06:35 am (UTC)
THIS
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 06:44 am (UTC)
THANK you.

I'm tired of making excuses for the show on this-- TWO YEARS of suffering through the bullshit, and not only is this not the show I want to see, but these don't "feel" like the characters they should be.

I don't believe in the choices either one of the boys is making, which doesn't help when I also don't like where they lead.
(no subject) - jumpuphigh on September 18th, 2009 06:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - halfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 06:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jumpuphigh on September 18th, 2009 06:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - halfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 07:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jumpuphigh on September 18th, 2009 07:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
never trust a big butt and a smile: dean lipsobeetaybee on September 18th, 2009 06:36 am (UTC)
I'm keeping my fingers crossed this is temporary. Like in just next week's episode temporary. But...well. I guess we'll see.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Hughalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 06:47 am (UTC)
I could maybe tolerate a week of this, but not much more.

And part of the problem is that the choices not only don't appeal to me, they also seem OOC for both Sam and Dean. If they STICK to their unbelievable choices, that draws out the OOC-ness until pretty soon the show may feel like it's lost its hold on canon. :(
ErinRua: Carry onerinrua on September 18th, 2009 06:49 am (UTC)
I'm going to try and get my episode review done in a timely fashion, for a change, but I honestly am okay with this. In a real life context, I think it works, I think it's psychologically sound - and healthy - and I also think it's very strictly TEMPORARY.

It's like a married couple who've had a horrendous, horrific fight, and they need some time apart to really sort out how to be , how to live together again. I mean, for us, it's been all summer waiting. For the boys ... 3 or 4 days ago, they were beating the crap out of each other and saying things that can't be unsaid.

The thing that hurt me most is that the boys parted ways not with anger, but with love. They just can't be together right now. And honestly, I think it's a healthy choice, for the moment. In a Real Life context, it's maybe one of the healthier things they've done. The Trickster was right, they can't just keep doing this crazy stuff for each other.

So, I think it's just a temporary split, and I think they'll come back together a stronger, better partnership. They've both hurt each other terribly, but I think they can come back together as true equals, true partners, and brothers by choice. I think that's what will happen.

The boys both have a quest, now, to find out who they really are. Apart from each other, apart from Dad's influence, apart from angels and destiny and all that crap. They'll back come together because they choose to, not because anybody has to "take care of" anybody else.

That's my feeling, anyhow. I understand your upset, though, so we can agree to see differently, if that's the case. *HUGS!*
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 07:11 am (UTC)
So, I think it's just a temporary split, and I think they'll come back together a stronger, better partnership. They've both hurt each other terribly, but I think they can come back together as true equals, true partners, and brothers by choice. I think that's what will happen.

I really hope you're right about this, and that the temporariness of it is brief. I guess I've just lost all faith in Kripke at this point, because I feel like I've already been down this road for the last 2 seasons, and I want it OVER already.

I want the brothers back to being together as a unit-- and a complete unit at that, where neither of them is sleepwalking through through the whole thing.

And I didn't feel any love in them parting-- more the opposite. Both of them were making selfish choices, and they were both okay with that, and they honestly just don't seem to even care about each other right now. That bothers me most of all. *sniffle*
(no subject) - erinrua on September 18th, 2009 07:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
Jas Massonjasmasson on September 18th, 2009 08:11 am (UTC)
Yeah. I'm out. :(((((
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 04:42 pm (UTC)
Out as in, bailing altogether, or out as in, going to wait and mainline the show after the season's over and the dust has settled?

I know several people who've taken the latter path, because they can't handle the day-to-day suffering over the whole year.

I'm not yet at the point where I was with Prison Break, where I just didn't watch S4 at all (thank god).
(no subject) - jasmasson on September 18th, 2009 05:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Maerhys: √ never let you gomaerhys on September 18th, 2009 01:25 pm (UTC)
I think he's really going for that divorce metaphor and as long as it's temporary and doesn't result in suddenly!functional!boys I am okay with it for now. What hurt the most was the amulet retcon but I am making myself feel better with this rationale: The amulet retcon, somewhere in my med-addled brain and I am like this: god is love, love can find god, only true-amazing-world-altering love can find god, the amulet is a symbol of aforementioned love and thus can locate god. Until they tell me differently that's what I am going with.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 04:44 pm (UTC)
Nice icon!

I don't know what to think, because I've been holding out hope for two seasons of things getting better, and... they haven't gotten better. The torture has continued, and periodically it gets worse. And I'm utterly hating that. :(
I'm Mulder, She's Scully: bigbangrunedgirl on September 18th, 2009 02:26 pm (UTC)
Awwww, I can so feel your pain here. *hugs you* But I didn't see the last scene as the boys being disinterested at all, more like guarded and torn up and still very much 'in love.' Dean's reluctance to take off the amulet, his insistence that its loss is only temporary, his glances back over his shoulder at his brother all the while -- foreshadowing, but also genuine emotion, subtle but well acted I think, so it was very much there. And the ending -- I saw Dean's offer of the Impala as a shout out of his love for Sam at the top of his lungs. That's all Dean has in life, all that he values, all he has to give other than himself -- and he wants Sam to have it. It means safety and security and love and home, and it always has. And there's no way Dean thinks he's offering to give up both of the things he loves (Sam and the Impala) for good. The 'this is only temporary' idea just seemed to fly off the screen. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, but I think this is the physical disconnect that will lead to the emotional reconnect. Of course, the next few episodes might hurt alot.
*hugs you more*
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Hughalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 04:46 pm (UTC)
I like your take on this much better than mine, and I hope yours turns out to be the correct one!

For me, it's the emotional flatness at the end, and the fact that they're both accepting of choices that might endanger the other and possibly be The End, as far as they know-- Hunting has always carried the possibility that you might die any day (even more true now) and that's never far from my mind. :(
gunznammo2gunznammo2 on September 18th, 2009 02:50 pm (UTC)
Oh, Show! *weary sigh* The brothers' LOVE for one another made this show so special to me. I'm not giving up, can't... But, you're right, season four, especially, just broke my heart. I still cannot (re)watch 409 and 410. To expand on the marriage metaphor (hubby and I have been married 40 years :0 ) I've found that separating to work out your problems just doesn't work. Even if co-dependency is what caused some of the problems in the first place. With Sam and Dean, they need the others' point of view to steer them back to what's most important - their relationship. I've often warred with these two old sayings: 'Absence makes the heart grow fonder' AND 'Out of sight, out of mind' I've found the latter to be true more often than not. Only TOGETHER can they become stronger and more committed to the job at hand. Apart?...their focus is lost. That's my take on it, anyway. Show... get your shit together. And put those brothers together while you're at it.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 08:49 pm (UTC)
I've found that separating to work out your problems just
That's usually what I've seen as well.

If people get back together, it's because they missed each other too much. But the separation does NOT help. It's usually the beginning toward learning how to move on without the other person, often because you're fed up. And that's not what I want here! *cries*

Apart?...their focus is lost. That's my take on it, anyway. Show... get your shit together. And put those brothers together while you're at it.
That's it for me, too. I think they're in more danger apart than together, for one thing, but moreover... it already feels like they've BEEN apart for the last two years, one way or another. I hated it then, and I hate this even more!

And when the heck are we going to be done with it? If there's a reward for us suffering through this, it's too long in coming. And if there isn't, well, I've said it before-- I'll be mailing Kripke dead flowers for ages on end if he's put us through all this crap only to either splinter the boys apart forever or to kill one or both of them. Grrrr.
cindy: spn - metallicar (by mara_sho)tsuki_no_bara on September 18th, 2009 03:07 pm (UTC)
i totally, totally get where you're coming from, and i don't think you're entirely wrong, but i mostly agree with erinrua in that the boys need a little time apart so they can be stronger and better together, so they realize that they do love and care for each other and they have to forgive each other and themselves because they can't be apart forever. but they've done so much completely ridiculous, short-sighted shit out of love for each other that they both have to take a step back to sort of clear their heads and try to get past all the hurts and betrayals and whatnot.

i got the impression they were both just tired. not that they don't love each other, but they're tired of being together and having to see each other all the time and keep being reminded of all the shit they did. but my tv reception was horrible the last few minutes - i completely missed dean offering sam the impala - so i probably missed some nuances. (and i think the impala bit is telling - if dean really didn't care, if he really didn't love and want to protect his baby brother any more, he wouldn't have offered to give sam the car. the impala's much more an extension of dean than, say, the amulet is. it holds a lot more history.)

i'm still not sure why i trust the ptb to get them back together, but i do. but in a couple episodes if the boys are still walking their own paths separately, and dean's hunting and sam's off in rehab, and there's no movement towards getting them back together, then i'll be pissed.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 08:53 pm (UTC)
the boys need a little time apart so they can be stronger and better together

The way I'm looking at it, that was pre-Season 4 already. They were apart, and not only were they not stronger, but Sam wasn't all that happy to have Dean back, and Dean wasn't happy to be back, even though it was better than the alternative AND he was with Sam again.

I mean, they've done that, and it didn't work the first time. And moreover, it was darned hard to watch already!

and i think the impala bit is telling - if dean really didn't care, if he really didn't love and want to protect his baby brother any more, he wouldn't have offered to give sam the car. the impala's much more an extension of dean than, say, the amulet is. it holds a lot more history.
The emotional flatness of that scene totally make the Impala seem like a token offering to me rather than a sign that Dean cared.

but in a couple episodes if the boys are still walking their own paths separately, and dean's hunting and sam's off in rehab, and there's no movement towards getting them back together, then i'll be pissed.
Word-- I've been feeling utterly jerked around by this show (and Kripke) for two seasons now, and I'm tired of it. I just want to enjoy the show, and be entertained by it-- not have it hurt me like an abusive lover. :(
Celtic_Forestceltic_forest on September 18th, 2009 06:07 pm (UTC)
At the end of the episode I said, literally out loud, "Fuck you, Eric." (I don't normally talk to the tv.)
But I'm holding on to how, when Dean handed the amulet to Castiel, he so emphatically said "Don't lose it." The boys will come back together, I just hope it's soon and worth it - worth what we've been put through. I agree with you on S4 and the apocalypse arc. I want the heart of the show back.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 08:55 pm (UTC)
I just hope it's soon and worth it - worth what we've been put through. I agree with you on S4 and the apocalypse arc. I want the heart of the show back.

It's all the more frustrating because I don't like the Apocalypse arc-- I've always found that whole thing overblown and overdone (and rarely done well).

So after the pain of S3 (which WAS painful, and lost the heart of the show), we came back and had a whole year of S4 which proceeded to do more of the same. I'm so tired of it-- none of that is why I watch this show, and it never was. And I'm sick of being put through the wringer!
(Deleted comment)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 09:01 pm (UTC)
Though I honestly can't see how it could be anything other than, because at the end of the day what made the show as popular as it is, what drew the viewers and kept the viewers, was/is the relationship between Dean and Sam.
My honest fear is that that TPTB, and Kripke, don't understand that anymore. They think people are tuning in for the "cool" and the "angst," and the story arc, and that the viewers like Castiel MUCH better than Sam. I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't be sure. In S3, I felt more sure. By S4, my trust was gone. :(

Dean's offer of the Impala, as a result, faded into the background for me, so I'm not gonna comment on that.
It did for me too-- it seemed like lip-service to caring, rather than actual caring. Both of them were so flat in that scene (moreso Dean), that at the end I wasn't teary-eyed or anything more than weary and pissed-off. :(

after my initial 'what are the chances?' and 'isn't that just neat and tidy perfect' reactions to the amulet being the God-finding device
:D I never did get past that part-- most of the rest got overridden by my "Oh, please, enough with the coincidences already" reaction. ;)

It feels a little like the PTB have been caught up in God, the Devil and the apocalypse lore and are letting the characters suffer as a result.
Ditto-- Kripke's totally in love with this massive story arc he's got going, and I not only don't care, I actually don't like that he went there in S4. Instead of Sam and Dean finally getting back to being an emotional "unit" again, they drifted through being distant and chasing one "broken-seal" scare after another. A whole season of that, instead of setting things right after S3, which is what I actually wanted at that point. And I sure don't want more of S4 in S5!

I'm holding out hope though. :)
Good! Lots of people are, and I've still got my fingers crossed that it works out that way in the end. Or better, SOON.

blackcat333_99blackcat333_99 on September 18th, 2009 07:14 pm (UTC)
Sam's going to sit out the Apocalypse instead of guarding Dean's back? Seriously? Man up and bring your A-game, dude. That self-reflection might be okay some other time, but not while the skies are burning and your brother's off to try to save the world singlehandedly.

Heh. You should read MY reaction to this. I rather unloaded on Sam's decision making capacities in my ep review.

Of the good, however, is that I very strongly got the vibe that this will be a temporary split, that Sam won't take too long to figure out that this isn't the right way to go about fixing everything that's been damaged. Then reunion time. Just my speculation, not a spoiler. Mostly because it's what I believe, and maybe I'm projecting, lol.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 09:15 pm (UTC)
Heh. You should read MY reaction to this. I rather unloaded on Sam's decision making capacities in my ep review.
I ran over to peek, of course. Very similar to my opinion about that choice-- THIS IS NOT THE TIME. Regardless of whether that would ordinarily be necessary and good, the CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES outweigh that. Suck it up and help your brother, jackass.

Moreover, this goes over the line for Sam in my mind, even given choices he's made in the past. It seems OOC for him, and I hate it with a vengeance when canon becomes OOC.

Mostly because it's what I believe, and maybe I'm projecting, lol.
I would have thought that in S3 for sure, and I tried to hold out hope in S4. But I keep thinking that we should already BE at the point where this "disconnection arc" is over. It's gone on far too long already, for my tastes, and I'm just utterly sick of it. Moreover, it's really eroded my trust in Kripke and his vision for this show. :(
(no subject) - blackcat333_99 on September 18th, 2009 09:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - halfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 10:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Antyantychan on September 18th, 2009 10:08 pm (UTC)
Aw, it'll probably only last two episodes, if that. 5x05 is supposed to be the funny episode with the Paris Hilton monster; I can't see them being all tragic and estranged for that.

Apart from that: God missing? And SRS LOOK-DEAN-IS-DISAPPOINTED-WITH-SAM-AGAIN CLOSE-UPS (TM)? Lame. Just as lame as Dean's "Hell, horror, 40 years of torture" speeches that they did again and AGAIN last season. When did this show become so tedious?

Seen my new Prison Break vid yet? I finished it because of you after all! xD
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Diner Deanhalfshellvenus on September 18th, 2009 10:14 pm (UTC)
Just as lame as Dean's "Hell, horror, 40 years of torture" speeches that they did again and AGAIN last season. When did this show become so tedious?
Exactly-- the repetition is wearing out the message. I actually found myself saying, a few times during S4, that I was tired of Kripke trying to milk Dean's man!Pain for more viewer reaction. Enough already! At some point, it mocks Dean's pain rather than commiserates with it.

Still planning to get to the Vid! When I'm not at work (!) and my husband isn't looking over my shoulder. *must put on weekend todo list*
(no subject) - antychan on September 19th, 2009 10:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Deadbeat Nymph: sam dean bleeding angstdeadbeat_nymph on September 19th, 2009 09:58 pm (UTC)
I haven't read all the comments below, so I don't know where the discussion has gone, but I just wanted to pop in to offer love and hugs, so: *love and hugs*

I do want to add that I don't feel that it's all hopeless; the very fact that they've begun the season with this giant rift suggests that a major arc of this season will concern the brothers finding their way back to each other. I can't imagine Kripke et al. would intend anything different. I don't trust Kripke the way that some do, but I do feel that, aside from fangirl wishes, the brothers re-cementing their relationship and coming out of it all stronger than ever is the only thing that makes narrative sense.

It still hurts, though. :(
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 20th, 2009 05:43 am (UTC)
I guess my problem in part is that the brothers felt "apart" from each other at the beginning of S2, at S3, AND at S4 as well, and they only found their way "back" in S2. I'm so utterly sick of the distance and the despair, and I feel like I already went through that last year. I really don't want to see any more of it-- I want it healed and over, and for the boys to be happy at least in each other if not where the rest of the world is going.

the brothers re-cementing their relationship and coming out of it all stronger than ever is the only thing that makes narrative sense.
That IS a reassuring thought. I agree, that's what makes sense to me too.

There's just this part of my that worries that Kripke will pull the ultimate guy thing and slash and burn his characters at the end, which would piss me off no end, especially after 3 years of unending torture. :(
happy is as happy does: Sam and Dean - SPNhappywriter06 on September 20th, 2009 05:25 am (UTC)
It's funny, when I watched PB and Michael and Linc were not getting along I was upset. Like 'what is this fuckery?' I always felt like more of their distance was unnecessary and just showing how lazy the writers were. I don't have the same feeling with this show. It makes sense to me that they would at some point be disinterested in each other. Though I don't think that's what this is. More like unable to put aside everything else and be brothers like they could in the past. I don't have a word for it.

You do make a good point that now they decide to split? NOW? Really? I can deal with distance even though they are in the same care, motel room, etc... Actually being miles and miles apart and Dean offering up the Impala? WHAT? Though I'll fanwank that Dean still loves his baby brother and was willing to offer up his baby. Emotional distance? Yes. Physical? No.

I mean where is Sam going to do? What is going to do? And Dean? I feel like he needs to get the f over it to a certain extent because it's not like Sam was picking Ruby over him for the hell of it. He thought he was saving the world. I don't know but that's got to count for something.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on September 20th, 2009 05:46 am (UTC)
And Dean? I feel like he needs to get the f over it to a certain extent because it's not like Sam was picking Ruby over him for the hell of it. He thought he was saving the world. I don't know but that's got to count for something.

Exactly-- from what Sam knew, at the end of S4 (when Dean was dragged off to Hell), the Earth's next great threat was Lilith. Him taking her down, by whatever means necessary (hello, John Winchester), was the most important thing he could be doing.

There was no way for him to know that not only Ruby but the angels themselves were withholding important information on that score. :(
(no subject) - happywriter06 on September 23rd, 2009 08:05 am (UTC) (Expand)