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10 March 2006 @ 12:17 pm
Boondock Saints Mumbles  
So I finally saw this one (and "Blade: Trinity" a few weeks ago).

Kind of have mixed feelings about it-- more along the lines of "Flashy & trashy" like many of the movies you young'uns seem to watch these days.


I very much liked the two brothers in this, and the closeness (zen-like) between them. But not so sold on the vigilante-vendetta, and I really have some qualms about Willem Dafoe's character in it. The "Opera" part SO didn't work for me (pretentious just so gay-stereotype), and his character seemed to head off the CrackEnd of things late in the movie.

But I loved his sharpness and sarcasm, and the picking apart the scenes and getting to what was underneath it all. Again, though-- I tend not to love the "SuperGenius" characters whether in movies or TV. They're just annoying to me. You hear that Mulder? Bobby Goren? Criminal Minds Reid? I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting, but they just tend to be superior, smug, and insufferable. :(

The brothers were good together, but the mix of ultra-religious with Killers for God just borders on offensive to me. Yes, me-- the agnostic. It's hypocritical and wrong, and I don't like it.

I'm of two minds about the naked telephone scene that was cut. The two brothers were really cute in it, but my god. With the amount of scenery the Rocco character was chewing in that movie, I can see why the director/editor/producers/what-have-you decided that the mother was just Too Much. Spit that table out, lady! How can you talk with that sofa in your mouth? Geez.

The downside of cutting it is that... (and keep in mind that I watched this while biking indoors with the fan going and the volume up to Max and the subtitles on, and yet I could have missed something)... other than in that scene, I don't believe it's mentioned that the brothers are TWINS. That brings a whole different dynamic to their relationship (explains some of the TwinThink aspects of their behaviors and how they understand each other so well without words).

And the blond brother? Cute! Shocking, since I'm so not into blonds (except *cough*Jensen*cough).

Well, mindless fun anyway. Nice music theme. Brothers In Arms indeed (we so need a p0rn movie with that title!).
 
 
 
mooyoo: BDS - Saintsmooyoo on March 10th, 2006 09:00 pm (UTC)
Really really quick thoughts because I'm on my way out the door -

So agreed on the Rocco character. He annoyed the hell out of me. I liked the cut Mom scene other than the beginning when she was freakin out and pretending to shoot herself, so odd, and yeah, I wondered the same thing about never mentioning in the rest of the movie that their twins, which seems important - you get it from the dvd obx and such, but it should be mentioned in the movie. That bugs me when movies do that.

I have a different opinion on the Killers for God thing - I don't get the sense that the film is trying to portray these guys necessarily as heroes, but as guys who so fully believe that they are doing the right thing even though it is very hypocritical and not necessarily right or just. Even they at the end pose the question "how far are we going to take this" and the montage over the credits, interviewing various people who give all different responses to whether or not they're heroes, suggested to me that this whole thing is really questionable (Willem Defoe's reaction to the scene in the courthouse also makes me think that even he, who became so invested in this, is still very conflicted about it).

Anyway, gotta run, but I'll probably be back later with some more :)
ezgal on March 10th, 2006 09:58 pm (UTC)
love that icon :)
mooyoo: BDS - Smokingmooyoo on March 11th, 2006 02:32 am (UTC)
:) I love it too, it's one of my favorites. Got it from boondockicons
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 10th, 2006 10:12 pm (UTC)
So agreed on the Rocco character. He annoyed the hell out of me.
He was just so outThere and so "loveable" that it was simply too much. Although in the outtakes, where he's kind of fumbling over the "Wyatt Earp, man!" line like he has no idea what that even means... so cute. And it's his real name. I have the feeling he's a friend that the director/producer adores and so they cast him even though he's not a real actor. God, I hope it's that at least. Otherwise... not much excuse!

I liked the cut Mom scene other than the beginning when she was freakin out and pretending to shoot herself, so odd,
It really was. She was just so overbearingly WEIRD, and it was distracting. Kind of a bummer, because I loved that scene in all other respects. There was actually more casual dialogue with/about each other in that one scene that in the rest of the movie, and it lent some "bonding" balance to the characters.

I have a different opinion on the Killers for God thing - I don't get the sense that the film is trying to portray these guys necessarily as heroes, but as guys who so fully believe that they are doing the right thing even though it is very hypocritical and not necessarily right or just. Even they at the end pose the question "how far are we going to take this" and the montage over the credits, interviewing various people who give all different responses to whether or not they're heroes, suggested to me that this whole thing is really questionable.
It's so hard to say, because half the people were all on the bandwagon-- just like you know at least half of the audience must have been. Which I don't like much. There wasn't enough clear DISapproval of what they did to satisfy me. :D
mooyoo: BDS - WDmooyoo on March 11th, 2006 02:29 am (UTC)
Although in the outtakes, where he's kind of fumbling over the "Wyatt Earp, man!" line like he has no idea what that even means... so cute.

I loved the outtakes, but that one was so bizarrely hilarious to watch, it seemed like he hadn't even read the script or they just came up with that line on the spot because he seemed to have no idea how to say it or when, etc. I also didn't get why the character name was the same as his name (or frankly, why this guy was even cast in the role), and I wasn't really heartbroken to see him bite it in the end. I think I actually might've liked the movie more without him, in fact.

There wasn't enough clear DISapproval of what they did to satisfy me. :D

I can understand that, but for me that was what was interesting about it - that they didn't give you a clear indication of how you should take the film and their actions. Are they heroes and saints, as they believe, or are they murderers as the law says? Even Willem Defoe's character (who's name I can't remember), who so bought into everything by the end, seemed not too sure. I like the ambiguity of movie, that it doesn't present you with a message that the filmmaker is trying to convey but rather, like the interviewed subjects in the credits, allows you to come to your own conclusions on whether or not you approve and why.

On Willem Defoe's character - I agree on the opera thing, didn't care much for that, but everything else with him I loved. I won't go on and on about what I liked about the character and his arc (I spewed quite a bit about him in a post in my journal a few days ago), but on the intelligence thing you brought up - for one, he's an FBI agent working with local detectives, so it seems more likely that he'd be more experinced and meticulous than those he's working with. And one of the things that was actually kind of quirky and funny about him was that for all of his being able to piece together the crime scenes, he couldn't completely peg down the events - smarter than a couple of the detectives, but still not perfect.

So yeah, I have many, many more thoughts on the movie, but I'll spare you. They're in my journal if you're ever interested :)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 11th, 2006 07:40 am (UTC)
(or frankly, why this guy was even cast in the role), and I wasn't really heartbroken to see him bite it in the end. I think I actually might've liked the movie more without him, in fact.
Word to all of that! I'm still back to the F.O.D. (Friend of Director) as a theory for why he was in it at all. Clearly not a major talent.

like the interviewed subjects in the credits, allows you to come to your own conclusions on whether or not you approve and why.
And I don't so much, for lots of moralistic reasons. People seem to be getting less and less skilled in critical thinking over time, and I'm sure most of the audience for the movie felt they were spoon-fed vigilante heroes. I mean, the average person loves vigilanteism far too much. It's a simple/simplistic solution to a lot of bothersomely complex problems.

So yeah, I have many, many more thoughts on the movie, but I'll spare you. They're in my journal if you're ever interested :)
I peeked over there, and I did not want to intrude on your big Smecker love (that's the character). I like Willem Dafoe in general, and mostly liked this character (I liked his exasperated intelligence and sarcasm), but I did feel the gay aspects of him could have been less stereotypical. I mean, that would REALLY have been nice for a change. :(

And if you haven't read the lyra_wing BDS/SN Xover ezgal recs at the bottom of this journal entry... you really should. ;)
mooyoo: BDS - Bloodmooyoo on March 11th, 2006 05:52 pm (UTC)
It's a simple/simplistic solution to a lot of bothersomely complex problems.

That I agree with, but I think it comes down to personal tastes on the film itself - I generally prefer when a movie doesn't present you with a clear message, I like the viewer being able to come to their own conclusions about what they watch, even if it's a touchy or controversial subject. Not that I dislike movies with a clear message (I loved Good Night, and Good Luck, for example), but with this one I liked the ambiguity, I liked that the interviews during the credits are probably a pretty good reflection of the mixed reactions amongst the film's audience.

I did not want to intrude on your big Smecker love (that's the character).

Haha, meh, that's okay. I can see your point about the stereotypical gay characteristics, I hadn't thought much about it before - was too enamored with his arc as a character outside of his being gay and the zeal with which Willem Defoe played him.

And if you haven't read the lyra_wing BDS/SN Xover ezgal recs at the bottom of this journal entry... you really should. ;)

I have, found them when I was looking back through the bds_fic comm :) You should point them out to clex_monkie89 though, she's been dying for some BDS/SN crossover fic.
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: brothers cagedthelana on March 10th, 2006 09:16 pm (UTC)
So, had any chance to see Fraility yet, as a dark perspective on Supernatural?

(yes, I know, me hypocritical because I still haven't had the chance to catch Black Robe yet)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 10th, 2006 09:28 pm (UTC)
Ooh-ooh! I had totally forgotten that I wanted to see "Frailty!" So, no, but-- I plan to.

I also want to see "The Woodsman" at some point, which will be dark and awful, and yet... I like Kevin Bacon doing drama and comedy (not so much the "leading actor" kind of thing). Still have "He Said/She Said" and "Tremors" and "The Big Picture" on my guilty pleasures list...

Must See Black Robe. For August Schellenberg, if for no other reason. God, he moved me.
The Good, The Bad and The Lanathelana on March 10th, 2006 09:33 pm (UTC)
I liked the Woodsman a lot. I thought it was wonderfully done.

I can picture some people not enjoying the premise, but I just really, really liked it a lot and it had some quiet *wow* scenes in my mind and just impress you and make you think.
ezgal on March 10th, 2006 10:04 pm (UTC)
Boondock Saints sucks mightily.

But.. guh wuh and brainexplody.. those boys.

I suffered through it so I could read the BDS/SPN crossovers.

pimp:
lyra_wing's Compels You.

http://lyra-wing.livejournal.com/10206.html
http://lyra-wing.livejournal.com/10253.html
http://lyra-wing.livejournal.com/10636.html
http://lyra-wing.livejournal.com/11396.html
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Gen: icon by Tinamishihalfshellvenus on March 10th, 2006 10:08 pm (UTC)
Thanks, Olivia! Someone commenting on my SN Crossover drabbles reminded me of an early SN/Boondocks Xover, but of course it was back in the SNfic archives and would have taken some hunting.

Handy links are SO loved :D