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09 November 2007 @ 12:29 pm
spn 3x05 and 3x06  

I almost thought my show was back last week, with "Bedtime Stories." We had a good story (with hints of pathos on the part of the doctor), and we had Sammy taking the bull of Dean's Fate by the horns. The "gay" crack wasn't good, and the casting of Jared's girlfriend was oddly incestuous and distracting, but it was a good, solid episode and light on the mytharc stuff. I still don't like how the brothers are splitting up all the time this season, but it was handled better.

This week's show started off promising-- nice, creepy premise that was actually made better by the death-omen sighting of something in a place where it clearly didn't belong. You know, aside from the incredibly gratuitous T&A for this week (because I always jog in my 100-degree clothing at night).

But then it turned into Remington Steele somehow, and the spooky got undercut by the secondary story involving Bela-- who realistically should not have run into the boys again for a case like this, because c'mon, it's a big country! It's more likely, in fact, that she would have stumbled on the case than they did, given that she already knew the cause of the phenomena the boys were chasing.

I'm going to be contrary here, and say that a big part of that episode was aimed at getting Dean in a tuxedo for the fangirls. Now, Jensen looks fabulous in a tux, and there's some comic fun in the fact that Dean looks much less fabulous as soon as he starts moving. He still walks like an ape (I actually liked that, because it's true to Dean), and he's still ill-mannered.

But the "buffoon-Dean," which I find fun on occasion, is starting to become the bulk of what we've seen in him for S3. He's either a sexaholic, gluttonous buffoon, or he's a slow-witted, uncouth baffoon.

This is a man with less book-learning than Sam, and who is arguably less bright than the very-bright Sam, but he used to be good at what he did, and a guy with the wherewithal to hack an EMF meter together out of a Walkman or to Devil's Trap a crossroads demon is not exactly stupid.

Poor Sam was stuck being bait (with the goofy slicked-back hair yet again, no less). I'm on the fence about the older woman here. She looked pretty darn good for a gal her age, but was reduced to being a one-note lech who didn't seem to have a passing care that her niece had just died.

Now on the plus side, I really like that Sam and Dean's "Yeah, I know your brother just died, but what about the boat he saw, huh?" comes off as really insensitive and random (just as it should) and you hurt for the surviving sibling... only to have that completely erased by finding out his history. I like that he wasn't immediately painted as a villain, and that he was layered enough to be heartless about his father and heartbroken over his brother.

I was beyond overjoyed that Sam told Dean to stuff it in the car-- first there's the berating of "You don't go trying to save me, because I told you not to!" coupled with the valid realization that Dean's put Sam in an awful position, but just as Sam said, what was missing was any idea that Dean even gives a damn about a chance to survive. Apologizing for being the one to leave out of one side of your mouth while you totally ignore any possibility of NOT doing that... yeah, Dean deserved to be called on that one.

The fangirl in ME would have liked to have seen the $10K being used for a fun little vacation for the boys that we'd get to see in a future episode-- preferrably for the boys and not just Dean parking Sam somewhere and sleeping with every girl on the beach. Blowing the money on the roulette wheel is so anticlimactic and stupid, somehow. Back to DumbDean once again.

I'm hoping that's the last we see of Bela for awhile, but I just know there are people on my f-list who are all excited about her (and that an explosion of Dean/Bela porn is imminent). Randomly, she looked much less attractive in this episode-- the way she uses her mouth for that British accent really diminishes her looks, and I don't recall ever thinking that about anyone who spoke with that kind of accent!

ETA: The words "Flying Dutchman" were out of my mouth as soon as the ship made its first appearance. But when I think of that, I'm thinking of the Wagner opera long before the Pirates Of The Carribean substory. :0

ETA2: Damn, but this is long...



 
 
 
Queen of Music: spn_slash2dove95 on November 9th, 2007 10:13 pm (UTC)
I totally hear you about Dean, and it's getting really old.

I wasn't feeling last night's episode too much, except that I loved seeing Sam's reaction to the creepy lady pawing at him. I kept thinking that she's the one that wanted the hand in the first place and that that was why she seemed dismissive to me, but eh...

Ruby, I like. This Bela chick just annoys the bejesus out of me.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 12:20 am (UTC)
I'll like Ruby better if she doesn't keep showing up every week and Sam or Dean don't start sleeping with her (because god knows I fear the "love interest" thing creeping into the show).

This is partly the problem I had with some of S2, actually-- when it starts feeling like an ensemble show, it stops working for me (remember when The Roadhouse was in every episode for awhile, even if it was just a phone call)? For Bela, the time for her to reappear (if at all) would be many, many episodes down the line, so it doesn't feel so contrived. For Ruby, I just don't want her on there every week, but given that she's got a little extra "in-tell" because of her demon nature, her ability to show up where the boys are is more believable.
Deadbeat Nymph: dean serious beigedeadbeat_nymph on November 9th, 2007 10:21 pm (UTC)
That's exactly what I loved about the tux bit, that he was still Dean beneath the clothes, completely ruining the effect, but in a delightful way. Except, however, that they took it too far with the buffoonery.

I do agree that they're undermining Dean's character - and Jensen's ability - with the exaggerated buffoon thing. I've really enjoyed Jensen this season so far, but he can only do so much with what he's given. And they've been giving him a lot of crap, especially considering how much character development there was in S2.

I didn't mind Bela so much. I prefer her to Demon Barbie, and I find the actress more convincing. I wouldn't want to see too much of her, however, but here she was okay. I even enjoyed the 'angry sex' joke, but I wouldn't want to see them actually get together. A little UST here and there is fine, but please nothing more, Kripke!

I did, however, like her few taunting moments re. daddy hugs and damagedness. The first one especially gave Jensen an opportunity for a nice moment, and I think he did well with it. It was small, but I appreciated it. I think it's in those small moments, of which there are too few, that he's been doing very well this season. IMO, anyway.

I found the whole Sam bait thing a bit taxing. It was funny for a second, but it dragged on and became a pointless waste of time.

I did like the premise of the episode, the ghost ship. That was very weeee! for me because I love everything to do with the sea and ships and such. I also like that it was a return to a good old fashioned ghost story.

And I liked all the bits of brotherness. I'm glad they're taking it a bit further, developing it a bit more. I was afraid they'd end up having the same conversation over and over again to slip in the requisite angst, so this was nice. And Dean's last words in the epi were crushing, though appropriate. In my head, Sam made him pull over so he could smack him around a bit. *blushes because that's porn to her*

Oh! Oh oh oh! My biggest complaint, actually, was the first death scene. The way they insist on eroticizing women's deaths vexes me greatly. Could they please have fewer scenes in which nubile young women struggle naked and wet through their violent death throes, please?

*and yes, she totally realises the irony of making such a statement right after admitting that Sammy whupping Dean is porn to her, she does, but she insists upon the difference, because Sammy really loves Dean, and they're both men, anyway, and besides, Dean does deserve a bit of a smack*
*slinks off into her corner*

Edited to say, wow, that was really long, sorry. And weee! I can edit!

Edited at 2007-11-09 11:02 pm (UTC)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 12:26 am (UTC)
I even enjoyed the 'angry sex' joke, but I wouldn't want to see them actually get together. A little UST here and there is fine, but please nothing more, Kripke!
Yes-- word. Half of fandom is all "Oh, please-- let's see that!" and the other half is "Not on your life!" I'm in the latter camp.

I did, however, like her few taunting moments re. daddy hugs and damagedness.
Oh now, those lines were priceless. Because we all know neither Dean nor Sam got enough of that, and they ARE damaged-- and to a certain degree, I'd bet most hunters are (and she's probably double-crossed more hunters in her time than Sam and Dean have even met, thus far).

I also like that it was a return to a good old fashioned ghost story.
I did too-- which was why I was hoping to see more of that creepy aspect played up and less the Remington Steele aspect (other people are referring to it as "Alias," but I'm of an older generation and have different reference points).

The way they insist on eroticizing women's deaths vexes me greatly. Could they please have fewer scenes in which nubile young women struggle naked and wet through their violent death throes, please?
Yes-- god, the women in this fandom are peeved about the shower scene in general, the open mouth and the "Oh, oh, right-there-baby" expression on the woman's face throughout. Because most of us probably don't do that in the shower, for crying out loud, and there's YET MORE of that male-demographic pandering again. Which is why I protest the tux thing a little, because I feel like the women are being pandered to as well.

*but she insists upon the difference, because Sammy really loves Dean, and they're both men, anyway, and besides, Dean does deserve a bit of a smack*
This whole semi-kink part of sexuality is so totally incomprehensible to me, seriously. But you knew that already! I just don't get it.
Deadbeat Nymph: sammydeadbeat_nymph on November 10th, 2007 01:48 am (UTC)
I never watched Alias, so I'll take you at your word on that. I enjoyed your Remington Steele take, though. :) However, I just leapt directly to Bond. Too far?

Which is why I protest the tux thing a little, because I feel like the women are being pandered to as well.

I don't mind them pandering to the female demographic, and I don't think it's hypocritical, honestly, because the problem is that in mainstream culture, they always pander to male desire. I'm fine with some reversal - we deserve our bit - and they always do it so gently when they do, anyway. I mean, Dean in a tux vs. wet, naked moaning woman being murdered? Yeah.

This whole semi-kink part of sexuality is so totally incomprehensible to me, seriously. But you knew that already! I just don't get it.

You know, I've been wanting to write some meta on this for a while now, not just for you, but kind of for you. Not to try to sell it to you, but to explain to those who don't get it what it means to us/what it does for us who do.

Here, though, I feel I should maybe expand a bit on my first comment. I wouldn't take pleasure from seeing Dean actually hurt - except for the comfort aspect that would follow, but that's different because it's the comfort that's appealing, not the hurt - but there's a strong element of intimacy and catharsis in Dean taking a bit of gentle chastisement from his Sammy. I mean, there's a titillating naughty factor, of course, and the sensuality of the physical aspect, but it's all wrapped up together; these elements are inextricable from the whole.

Hm. Is it squicky for you just to have me discuss this here? I'll run away if so. Oooh, or I'll edit it out. Man, it's sad how much enjoyment I take from the new edit function.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: SN Lovershalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 07:22 am (UTC)
However, I just leapt directly to Bond. Too far?
That's the thing-- it's as if they were trying to go for Bond, but it was too cheesy and fell into Remington Steele territory instead. (I loved that show, but it was not self-deluded about being great art).

mean, Dean in a tux vs. wet, naked moaning woman being murdered? Yeah.
Now, how can I argue with these entirely valid points? ;) Especially, though, the balance of where "pandering" falls on television/movies in general.

Hm. Is it squicky for you just to have me discuss this here? I'll run away if so.
No, not really. The whole thing is just "meh" to me, or more to the point, pain/humiliation is a HUGE turnoff to me. Not just in a personal sense, but when applied to other people as well. It's disturbing on all kinds of levels (funny that you're as big a creampuff as me, because I think it's my empathetic side that makes that such a huge problem). So it's more that, given who I am, that will never be remotely sexy at all. And there's also the problem I have with power dynamics in relationships, which is to say that I don't like them much. So much of slash helps me avoid the sexual politics that het brings out!

Man, it's sad how much enjoyment I take from the new edit function.
You're not the only one! I'm seeing repeated edits today from people. :D I mainly leap at the thought of not having to delete and repost a comment where I screwed up part of the HTML coding, usually the italics formatting. Because that happens a LOT. :0
ErinRua: Deanerinrua on November 9th, 2007 11:28 pm (UTC)
Hi there!

LOL, I had so much *fun* with last night's episode that I confess my tummy actually tightened when I first saw your post. Hmm, if you don't mind, I'll see if I respond and organize my thoughts. Bear in mind that this is my first attempt to articulate anything about last night's ep, so if it comes out rough, forgive me! :-)

Per the Remington Steele thing ... I actually got a kick out of it. Bela had just sneered at Dean's abilities, so he stowed her with the couch and went off to circumvent who knows how many layers of security to steal the hand, while a gaggle of big, muscle-y off-duty cops stood guard on the exibit. I liked that. A lot. And I thought it spoke far better than any words about the level of his ability. Granted, I can see your point, I'm simply sharing the different feeling I came away with. :-)

Sam with the old gal ... Yeah, it could have been shortened somewhat. But I wasn't distracted by any of it, and it amused me to see Sam for once getting hit on, so I guess I just let it roll off. For the woman's lack of care about her niece ... I'll have to watch again, but I got a strong sense she and her niece weren't all that close, possibly even at odds. No idea why I had that feeling, so maybe I just overlooked some dialogue and I'll change my thoughts on a second viewing. Again, you have a point, I just didn't get the same impression, so maybe I'm too easily pleased, lol! *G*

Finally, back to buffoon!Dean ... I've actually been of the opinion that this is Dean wearing his "I'm fine, really" suit. He's secretly scared to bits but he's covering it all up by plastering on that shiny, bigger-than-life, sex-and-hamburgers facade. It's not at all an unusual way for a guy who has less than a year to live, IMHO, so I figured a lot of that is just him keeping up his game face. That said, if Bela is slated to come back some time, I would really love the boys to out-slick the hell out of her. *G* In the meantime, I can at least take comfort in the fact that twice she bamboozled the boys ... and twice she had to come slinking back to them so they could save her cocky little ass. ;-) The brothers' unified front against her is one of the little things I've grown to love.

Finally, we don't know yet that the boys are gonna blow the whole 10K on Dean's partying, so we can always hope it will be better than that. Or maybe something will crop up later to show what they really did with it ....

And uh ... *shuffles feet* I'm really not at my most articulate or convincing today, am I? LOL, well, that's what happens when I only get 4 hours sleep. I'll mull on this episode some more, and see if I can come up with something actually thinky, later. Meanwhile, I'll join you in hoping to see a more clever and wiley Dean, to come! :-)
Cheers ~

Erin
brigid_tanner: dean-protectorbrigid_tanner on November 9th, 2007 11:57 pm (UTC)
You know what you said about the niece and Gert not being close...didn't they say that there was a car wreck and the niece survived but her cousin died? What if the cousin that died was the child of the aunt, Gert? I hadn't even thought about it till it was mentioned here. I'm still for shooting Bela for having the Impala towed.
ErinRua: Impalaerinrua on November 10th, 2007 12:10 am (UTC)
Ah-HA! Yes, that may be what niggled at me. LOL, I need to see an episode twice to really get the details sunk in. Yes, maybe the cousin was Gert's daughter! Erks.

But yes, messing with the Impala is a killin' offense. ;-)
Cheers ~

Erin
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 12:36 am (UTC)
What if the cousin that died was the child of the aunt, Gert? I hadn't even thought about it till it was mentioned here.

An interesting idea, that would explain a lot. Now, if only the writers had either 1) explained that via the mention of the dead cousin (that it was Gert's child), or 2) had her behave like any normal relative of someone who died.

*Sigh* Sorry to be such a stickler-- it's just that these are all plausible ideas, but the trick is that the writers need to finish the job on them instead of leaving a character half-baked.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 12:34 am (UTC)
And I thought it spoke far better than any words about the level of his ability.
Ah, good point. I actually liked that aspect a LOT-- Dean's defusing the security system-- but then part of the problem is that the dum-dum-Dean feels OOC with that aspect of personality. I want to see more of his wily side, and less of his "ape in a tux" kind of persona.

but I got a strong sense she and her niece weren't all that close,
I did too, but the question is why? If someone were visiting her because her niece ran off without a forwarding address that would be one thing, but her niece died. Most people have some degree of sadness at a time like that, even if they weren't close (in fact, it's a perfect time for self-recriminations!).

He's secretly scared to bits but he's covering it all up by plastering on that shiny, bigger-than-life, sex-and-hamburgers facade. It's not at all an unusual way for a guy who has less than a year to live, IMHO, so I figured a lot of that is just him keeping up his game face.
You know, I like this argument a lot. One of the things I'd like to see then, if it's true (and not just random bad writing!) is Dean's private moments, like after Sam turns away or leaves the room. I want to see that facade fall and glimpse the anguish underneath, and you know Jensen's the actor to do that.

Mainly, I don't want to have to guess that the writer's have better motives. I want that little extra effort (just as I mentioned above) that confirms that there are layers to what's going on, so I don't have to hate the surface. If that makes sense.

I love that you're willing to disagree with me! I feel bad, too, that I posted one of these a couple of weeks ago and my work day caught fire so I didn't get around to replying, and meanwhile everyone else was talking among themselves. I was a bad hostess at that particular party. ;)
ErinRua: brotherserinrua on November 10th, 2007 12:54 am (UTC)
Hi again!

Hmm, yes, your case for the weirdness of the older-lady-n-Sam thing is gaining strength. So maybe we'll have to chalk that up to the writers sacrificing substance for a few laughs. Hmph. ;-)

Meanwhile, I'm totally with you on the less of Dean's "ape in a tux" thing. We know the boys are clever - I wanted to smish Sammy all to bits when he retored, "We can crash anything". So more a clever, wiley Dean would really make me giddily happy. If giddily is a word ...

Ditto with giving us a glimpse of Dean's facade slipping when Sam turns away. Maybe their saving that, working up to it? Jensen is definitely good enough to kill us all with a glance, and we got our first sense of the mask cracking when he was talking to demon!Casey about whether he feared his death, in "Sin City". Okay, then, c'mon, Kripke, give us the goods! LOL!

I'm sooooooo glad Sammy called Dean on the whole, "I know it's hard for you, me going away" crap. DEAN! You dear, sweet idjit, you're going to HELL, not moving to Baltimore! He clearly still has that whole lack-of-self-worth thing simmering deep down. I felt bad when Sam refused to take Dean's honest attempt at an emo moment, but Dean needs to know how much Sam values himm, and every "you're my brother" is Sam shouting "I love you". Oh, boys! ;-

... And that last is probably apropos to absolutely nothing ....

Anywho, yes, it makes sense that you don't want to have to guess the writers' motives. I think it's simply a personality quirk of mine that I automatically presume the positive - and heaven knows, I've very often been proven wrong in life. My willingness to see the glass half full, instead of "someone stole half my freakin' glass!' does not always serve me well, LOL! *G*

Lastly, well, I only disagree with you in the most benign of ways - see half-full comment, lol! I tend to be rather conciliatory by nature, and weirdly, that translates to me making excuses for lapses in SPN's writing. ;-) I'm glad you are so open to opposing views - you're one of those people I enjoy talking to, even if we disagree on something!

... and probably I've taken up enough space here for now. ;-)
Cheers ~

Erin

Edited at 2007-11-10 01:00 am (UTC)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 08:21 am (UTC)
There was a longer reply to this, which I hope to post up Tuesday. It's stranded at my office on the PC, thanks to the dead network late this afternoon. My attempt at one of my PB fics for tomorrow is stranded there too. *grumbles*

:D
ErinRua: Dr Badasserinrua on November 10th, 2007 11:07 pm (UTC)
*snork* Don't you just love technology when it foils you? ;-) Anyhow, I'm looking forward to reading your reports! Have a great time!

BTW, today I sent a package/prezzie to the SPN office in BC - expadited, want the damn thing there before they shut down! Anyhow, it's the ultimate in geek-itude. I'll have to post about it in my LJ when I get organized. *G*
Cheers ~

Erin

Edited at 2007-11-10 11:10 pm (UTC)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 14th, 2007 06:36 pm (UTC)
Friday's comment, now that I'm back at the PC where I originally saved this off (stupid dead network):

I'm sooooooo glad Sammy called Dean on the whole, "I know it's hard for you, me going away" crap. DEAN! You dear, sweet idjit, you're going to HELL, not moving to Baltimore!
Hahahaha! It would make sense if he didn't believe that Hell was a real place (which I don't believe he did when he made that deal), but after their father crawled up out of it to wrestle the YED, I'd think that would be far more real to him now. And moreover, there's also the "I'm sorry for doing to you what I wouldn't let you do to me." Because that's sincere.

I think it's simply a personality quirk of mine that I automatically presume the positive - and heaven knows, I've very often been proven wrong in life. My willingness to see the glass half full, instead of "someone stole half my freakin' glass!' does not always serve me well, LOL! *G*
I'm kind of a cheerful cynic, so I can go either way on things. When it comes to my shows, though, and I know there's pressure from the suits above (and I've seen how shows like Smallville have been destroyed because of this kind of thing), I'm much less trusting.

... and probably I've taken up enough space here for now. ;-)
:D Nah-- they store these bits for us for free! Until their servers crash... ;)
ErinRua: screwerinrua on November 15th, 2007 04:03 am (UTC)
I'm kind of a cheerful cynic, so I can go either way on things. When it comes to my shows, though, and I know there's pressure from the suits above (and I've seen how shows like Smallville have been destroyed because of this kind of thing), I'm much less trusting.

Yes, there is certainly that. :-s I do think the shortage of classic rock in the S3 soundtrack is directly due to powers well above Kripke. Budget cutting and whatnot. I'm still not sure about the new color palate, if that was a directorial choice for this year (since S1 wasn't as dark as S2, so they *do* change), or if it was said Powers scowling down upon them. Lord knows "Hollywood Babylon" seemed to poke fun at higher-ups complaining about dark color themes, so maybe that was prophetical.

*sighhh* Meanwhile, I'm just hoping there's still an SPN to come back, whenever the damn writers' strike is over. Why can't the Big Hats just give the writers what they freakin' deserve? *grumble*

But that's a topic for some other day. ;-) 25 hours until SPN 3.7!!! (Not that I'm counting or anything, LOL!)
Cheers ~

Erin
michelle: Sam - rawrcertainthings on November 9th, 2007 11:29 pm (UTC)
You know, aside from the incredibly gratuitous T&A for this week (because I always jog in my 100-degree clothing at night).

RIGHT?! UGH. You just know that if it was Law and Order her body would've been found beaten and raped. Fucking hell.

(with the goofy slicked-back hair yet again, no less). -- I HATE when they fuck with his hair like that.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: JSquaredLovehalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 12:39 am (UTC)
RIGHT?! UGH. You just know that if it was Law and Order her body would've been found beaten and raped. Fucking hell.

Yes-- especially with the ear-buds of "I can't hear anyone coming after me here in the dark while I'm out by myself in my T&A clothes." What woman is that dumb, for god's sake?

It's like a double insult-- first the T&A, and then the stupidity. Grrrr....

HATE when they fuck with his hair like that.
I can understand it when they do the gel-- because his hair's kind of floppy, and he's supposed to be "respectable." But on the other hand, it looks really, really bad. And bring back the damn bangs already, because that forehead is NOT a feature you want to emphasize. :(
ruby_jellyruby_jelly on November 10th, 2007 01:46 am (UTC)
I read a couple of titles of comments about this ep. and was worried about the dumb Dean vibe I was picking up - must say, Bella definitely ran rings around him, in a superior, bitchy way.

They definitely set up about the tight security, professional guards, etc. and while the cinematography was evocative, establishing him as a confident, powerful player in this cat-burgular domain, I kept expecting him to blow it.

A thought did to occur to me during the Ruby demon reveal in previous ep., and it jumped back at me during "two ghost brothers meet" water special effect moment...I don't reckon the editing is as tight as it could / used to be. I realise they show things from a couple angles, for greater effect, but what's going on? Loosing dramatic impact I reckon.

I love that Sam is more than the reluctantly compliant research "little" brother of past seasons, needing to be looked after. Remember all that powerless huffing and puffing he indulged in - drove me crazy; how did Dean cope? Sam's standing up to Dean, and showing so much more of their changing relationship,as he assumes the mantle of manhood, and moves past his grieving. And he didn't tell him about meet with CR demon; more proof. Loving this aspect.

Ruby
shamangrrlshamangrrl on November 10th, 2007 03:23 am (UTC)
They definitely set up about the tight security, professional guards, etc. and while the cinematography was evocative, establishing him as a confident, powerful player in this cat-burgular domain, I kept expecting him to blow it.


This line saddens me so much. Since when do we *ever* expect Dean to blow it? Since when do we expect *Dean* to fail? I can't believe that this is the impression of Dean we're being given this season. But it is, isn't it?
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Diner Deanhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 07:40 am (UTC)
Since when do we expect *Dean* to fail? I can't believe that this is the impression of Dean we're being given this season. But it is, isn't it?
It sure feels that way to me, and it's so frustrating. I don't trust the show right now not to screw up the characters. :(
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 07:38 am (UTC)
and it jumped back at me during "two ghost brothers meet" water special effect moment...I don't reckon the editing is as tight as it could / used to be. I realise they show things from a couple angles, for greater effect, but what's going on?
I had the same thought as you during that moment, which was that the CGI portion of the brothers merging SFX was just far too slow-- it really dragged on, and I kept wondering, "What, is there more? Is something going to blow up? Because that wasn't worth 60 seconds of screen time."

Sam's standing up to Dean, and showing so much more of their changing relationship,as he assumes the mantle of manhood, and moves past his grieving. And he didn't tell him about meet with CR demon; more proof. Loving this aspect.
Oh me too, very much. This is just in the last two episodes-- the season started with Dean dumping him off in places again and again and running off, which bugged me on a number of levels. When they're not together, the show's chemistry tends to fall off, and moreover, ditching Sam to do the "real" adventuring puts Sam back in that S1 passive position and I really want to see him be more of a grownup this season instead.

One of my favorite twists of this season was Sam sneaking off to meet the CR demon-- the desire to take the most decisive action he could, given what he knows, and f**k whether Dean doesn't like it-- that's Dean's problem. He's got no business trying to boss Sam out of it. That's the kind of independence I'm hoping for more of this season. *crosses fingers*
shamangrrlshamangrrl on November 10th, 2007 03:16 am (UTC)
Does anyone know who wrote this episode? I know they got a few new writers in, and it just feels to me that the writing isn't as tight as S1 and S2. This episode in particular just didn't feel like Supernatural to me. It felt more like Charmed, with a healthy dash of Stargate SG-1 (the whole Me Jack, Me D-u-m, Dum phase, for Dean).

I'm not sure I can express this coherently, but hopefully someone more articulate than me will get it and (hopefully) write it out properly. The continually dropping IQ of Dean concerns me, almost as much as the contortions the fanbase is going through trying to explain it. In previous seasons, there has been speculation about characters, their motivations and the character arc, but it's never been so convoluted before. That's because the characters, while changing and growing, have been consistent unto the Supernatural world, and unto themselves. This season, it's almost as if Dean is being written by people who have no history within the show, because there's no continuity, the character path veers wildly all over, and there doesn't seem to be a clear goal. Just within this episode, we have Dean being exceeding dumb one minute, all suave and capable the next, not just teasing Sam, but almost being cruel to him, being dismissive - and I really don't think it's just in my imagination. I've never felt that Dean was unintelligent, until this season. I've always felt that his impatience with "geekery" was a cover and didn't really extend beneath the skin. No matter how much he teased Sam, I always felt that this was an aspect of his brother that Dean respected and admired. This season is destroying that for me, and I really wonder how the guy has survived as long as he has, I mean, with him being all drain-bramaged and all. Not only has Dean's intelligence gone down, but the nuances to his character are being stripped away. And I find that really sad, and a pathetic waste of the talent of J2. Because the deconstruction of Dean isn't doing Sam any favors either.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 10th, 2007 08:12 am (UTC)
I think you were pretty darn articulate all on your own there.

Just within this episode, we have Dean being exceeding dumb one minute, all suave and capable the next, not just teasing Sam, but almost being cruel to him, being dismissive - and I really don't think it's just in my imagination.
Yes-- the character's all over the map. We used to get nuances in different directions with Dean (at least after early S1, because he was kind of 1-dimensional at first), but they were extensions of the same character. Now, they feel like cartoon versions of various aspects of Dean.

Not only has Dean's intelligence gone down, but the nuances to his character are being stripped away.
That right there is my single biggest complaint with S3-- even above the lack of brother-time compared to the prior seasons. This doesn't feel like Dean anymore, and I don't think the fans should have to contort themselves trying to make excuses as to why these lesser-depictions of Dean in the writing still kind of "mostly" constitute Dean.

The writing just hasn't been that good, and I don't know why-- it's a lousy way to start off the season. Almost makes me wonder if scripts were messed with by the network after their rumored "thou shalt feature babes" proclamation came down.

Oh, and-- this'll amuse everyone-- this episode's writer hasn't written for Supernatural before, but HAS written for "Alias." Dude-- let go of your dead show already and stop trying to recreate it elsewhere. :(

Anthrogeeke (Brynnydd): SPN Dean Homeworkanthrogeeke on November 10th, 2007 03:40 am (UTC)
OMG thank you. I really really really can't stand Bela. I don't get the "Bela Love". Ruby I adore. I think she fits the universe, but Bela just annoys me and not in a good way.

*facepalm* The Dumb Dean routine is really annoy. Anyone who could survive hunting as long as he as is NOT a stupid man. Luck and good fighting skills would not keep you alive long. He would know fairy tales, he'd know how to research. The stupid horny Dean thing makes me want to tear my hair out..

All that aside, I did enjoy this episode...well most of it.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 14th, 2007 06:41 pm (UTC)
but Bela just annoys me and not in a good way.
Well, we're not meant to like her-- she's a reprehensible person, as Dean keeps pointing out ("You know about all this, and this is what you choose to do about it?").

But I want the character to be there for story reasons, not brand-new stupid-ass "Meeting Weekly Babe Quota" reasons. And right now, I'm not buying it (my trust for the CW is dead).

He would know fairy tales, he'd know how to research.
Exactly-- it's not like they're obscure folklore from Albania-- which he just might know anyway. They're part of the background lore of Western Civilization, for god's sake. :(

The stupid horny Dean thing makes me want to tear my hair out..
I'm sick of it already-- and sick of having it thrown in our faces. Do I believe he's like that? Absolutely. Do I want my nose rubbed in it weekly, with chesty detail? Heck, no.
Daea Nereem: spn b&w my Jennereem on November 24th, 2007 02:40 pm (UTC)
I'm British and i think Bela's accent.... is awful.

People can sound like that sure- and i realise that the British accent is usually hammed up more in American television, but it irks me so.

I don't have qualm about having female characters introduced to a show. I just would prefer Bela to be hated because she is a cold, calculating woman. Not a love interest with a cliched back history that Dean will 'understand', despite doing things to them and his brother, that really should be unforgiveable.
Where oh where is the Dean that we all fell in love with in Season one?

Dean i never thought was stupid. Academically, Sam was brilliant and probably more 'book wormy' than Dean, but this is a man who as you say somewhere, made his own EMF thingy out of a walkman. That's a guy who has another little spark going on upstairs. Season 1 had the introduction to the boys, two was a way of feeling what they were feeling during the plot and to Save Sammy.

Season 3 is like a mockery of the fun parts of the boy's personalities. I find it really hard to watch and though Fresh Blood was probably the one ep that i have liked fully so far, i just think that they've lost a certain spark that Season 1 and perhaps, Season 2 had.


Ruby i can see fitting into the plot- because, demon- though its been done before with Meg (Kim always said that it was a mistake to get rid of Meg- maybe Ruby is her? I dont know. Its only an assumption.) Bela is a one off character, shes' written taht way and i find it incredbly difficult to see her popping up as regularly as she is. I vote for her to stay the evil little biatch we would grow to love and hate- not this girl who has a back story and done things she had to do ... balh blah, its all been done before. And thats what i hate more, is that its so obviously al ove interest. Kripke, you may say all you want that they're not, but i put my money on it that they'll be an item or some cryptic relationship will happen. Dont make that happen in a way thats cliched and so , oh so predictable, please? CW, you suck.

I am getting my lj butt into gear. I've friended your properly, colour coded you and am starting to -reread through your fiction to give you the fb you deserve.

Daea


Edited at 2007-11-24 02:41 pm (UTC)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on November 28th, 2007 08:46 pm (UTC)
Not a love interest with a cliched back history that Dean will 'understand', despite doing things to them and his brother, that really should be unforgiveable. Where oh where is the Dean that we all fell in love with in Season one?

I don't want to see too much of her-- because would that ever be contrived. As in, I'd better not see her again this season. And I don't want her "redeemed," OR turned into a dreaded love interest. Nothing wrong with semi-villains after all-- Gordon was a fine example of that.

I find it really hard to watch and though Fresh Blood was probably the one ep that i have liked fully so far, i just think that they've lost a certain spark that Season 1 and perhaps, Season 2 had.
It think it's partly the writers-- they've all been new writers except for the opener (Kripke), Bedtime Stories (a writer in prior seasons), and Fresh Blood (Sera Gamble). And the new writers seem to have NO feel for the characters, in which case their scripts should be tweaked or they should not be writing. Have some quality control, damnit!

Kim always said that it was a mistake to get rid of Meg-
Hmmm. If he means "mistake" in the sense of "The network suits might have left me alone if I'd kept that female chracter." I really thought she'd overstayed her welcome, but then I kind of think that about the larger mytharc in general. Too much detail or attention, and it starts to get silly to me instead of "deep." :0

I've friended your properly, colour coded you and am starting to -reread through your fiction to give you the fb you deserve.
Whee! That's always good news. :) How did you pick "nereem" as a username, BTW?