Oh Dean.

*sighs*

Beautiful little insight.

Thank you!

It's ironic and sad to think that what John had and lost with Mary is the exact thing his desire to hunt and avenge that will prevent Dean from ever having himself. And Sam, if Sam had listened...

So sad, but so true.

*sigh*

This is sad and lovely. Makes me kinda sad.

Oh, Dean. Bless his heart.

Yes, yes-- it's so much easier if you assume Dean never wanted anything lasting.

But if instead you think that he never had a chance to even hope for it, that really is sad. :(

Oh Dean. *sniff*

Go ahead, break my heart.

Sorry!

Guess I found another reason for me to be mad at John. I waiver all the time. :(

I've thought it before, but never addressed it so directly.

The Winchester lifestyle destroys the possibility of more than what Dean takes. It's one thing that John isn't looking for a second version of the Real Thing after Mary died, but his boys haven't had that yet. Why didn't he ever put those two things together?

he has to take what he can get in the little time he has to try for it. it's not that he can't or doesn't want to have an actual relationship with a girl - he just knows that the nature of his job means he'll never be around long enough for one.

and y'know, that's really sad. :(

he just knows that the nature of his job means he'll never be around long enough for one.

And that the way he was brought up means that there's no "when it's over," because it's never over.

And that IS sad-- I don't think the boys' father ever thought about the lifestyle he set up for them, with the choices he made.

John had already had that, and lost it. But if they live their future out his way, his sons will never have it. :(

This matches my view of Dean - a "live for the moment" type of guy - he knows the limitations of his life and just makes the best of it.

And, as a bonus - it is well written! Yee haw!

I loved the "Dean hopes Dad didn't..." That tore at me.

I loved the "Dean hopes Dad didn't..." That tore at me.

It's even sadder if you think of it as not just Dean knowing John would be disappointed in him for that, but the flip-side being that John's lifestyle choices and edicts created that, and Dean's feeling guilty for betraying his father while in a way his father betrayed him.

It's a Mobius strip of guilt. :(

Sam knows, but Dean hopes Dad didn't
It's those little bits that make your drabble add up to more than something like "Dean doesn't have time for relationships." Very nice.

Thank you!

It's double-edged angst there, too. I'm sure John wouldn't have thought much of that being all that Dean looks for (and Dean knows it), but at the same time, where exactly did he think the life he chose for his boys was going to lead? It sure doesn't lead to the kind of life he had with Mary, before the tragedy began. :(

*heart*

Thank you. :)

I think we all have some feeling for that flip-side of how Dean behaves. Sam escaped that possibility himself only by doing the forbidden thing of leaving.

But staying, and living as John meant them to, rules that the longer, deeper relationships. It's actually part of the impetus for the Wincest, for a lot of people.

I don't think John ever thought about the consequences of that dangerous migratory lifestyle just never being "over," because there's always work to do, always someone to save...

*nod* John and "eventual consequences to your boys" definitely doesn't seem to mesh. Everything you just said *points up* - yes. John was running from a lot of things, I think, fighting a lot of personal demons (sorry, couldn't think of a better word there), and he took both the boys with him - till Sam left.

I can't lay claim to sayin' it first, but someone said that it would be strange if there *wasn't* an unhealthy attachment between the brothers at this point. I know I buy that, just from seeing strangely twisted relationships around me every day. And I'm not leaving myself outta this. I've got my broken edges and kinds, and I had a relatively boring, "normal", nice upbringing.

but someone said that it would be strange if there *wasn't* an unhealthy attachment between the brothers at this point.
Yes-- or at least, on Dean's part.

I think Dean gave Sam a lot of the things that Dean lost himself when their mother died-- the unconditional love, some degree of tenderness that a "Sir, yes sir!" father didn't offer, the support (sometimes) for who Sam already was and who he wanted to be.

Sam was able to love Jess the way a normal person would, thanks to that influence of balance. But Dean only really loves Sam. It's one of the reasons his character strikes so much harder with me-- Sam may angst about what the Winchester lifestyle took away from him, but it cost Dean SO much more (and losing their mother at age 4, Dean had some idea of exactly what he lost).

Oh, boys-- I could torment myself over them all day...

Thank you, Rinne. :)

It's not a happy way for him to feel, but it's painfully realistic, that's for sure.

aw, man, so poignant!! That was great, and so realistic, I can totally see that. And while Dean would be self-aware of this all, John by his narrowly driven nature, would not. Sad, but great!

John by his narrowly driven nature, would not.
I agree-- I don't think he did enough stepping back and looking at the big picture at all.

You teach your children certain values and have certain expectations of how they'll behave/what they'll be, but if you bind their behavior by other choices you make for them... you'll rarely see it. I kind of hurts that Dean's knows his father would be ashamed of that "love 'em and leave 'em" behavior even though the lifestyle he chose for his family pretty much guaranteed it-- that or the option that Sam chose. :(

On the flip side, I know two different families where the parents (one the father, one the mother) are serial monogamists. Both love their only child, and are convinced that they're creating a happy life for them. But the number of "new family member-- oops, they're gone now" situations they've put their children through is destroying them, and the parents haven't a clue. One little girl moved 4 times during her Kindergarten year, and her mother had no ability to just stand back and realize that she was destroying any sense of stability her daughter had. :(

/ranty-detour. Sorry. But, it all comes down to choices that are more about YOU the parent and too little about your children-- and it costs them, even when you pretend otherwise...

That's so incredibly sad. So much about Dean is.
It's why I'm so much more a DeanGirl than a SamGirl.

Sam's been able to step outside his upbringing and make the choices that a normal person needs to make-- thanks in a large part to Dean, I think.

Dean just... the boy never had a chance. :( Between being the oldest (responsibility/duty/parent-pleasing) and John's son and not having his own Dean to help him through that... he never had a chance. *sniffle*

Wonderful!

Thank you! It's funny how much this drabble says about John, even though it's really about Dean.

Parents and who they make their children... sometimes, that really just hurts.