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23 March 2007 @ 01:49 pm
SPN, Sweet Charity, and the usual random  
Sweet Charity bidding ends tomorrow! I'm waiting to see who will pwn me after that-- I've got both a beta-reading and fic-writing offer up for sale. *anticipates*


Supernatural 2.17, "Heart" ramblings:
First, let me say up front... I didn't watch the "Sam" scene (you know the one) with all the attentive detail that most of you seem to have. It's like the "Dean" scene in Route 666. If it were slash, I wouldn't be able to look away. When it's Het, I sometimes get embarassed, and peek back periodically. Hence, all those positions and other stuff you noticed? I didn't. Plus my husband kept going in and out of the room.

I spent roughly 40 minutes trying to figure out who the guest-actress looked like-- an actress from the early 80s who was in "Streets of Fire" and that campy "gang" movie people made such a stink about. I finally got it-- Deborah Van Valkenburgh! Whew. Relieved now. (and cursing every actor who does NOT have their picture up on imdb.com, so you could all see what I mean).

Random love for why it took Dean so incredibly long to pick up on the concept of "one of those guys who'll hit on anybody at a bar," and for losing at "Rock, Paper, Scissors" twice. Even after Sam pointed out Dean's predictability. Don't know whether Dean thought he was being all tricky the second time, or whether he did it on purpose to let Sam have a chance at the girl (since Sam's always missing out by choice).

The ending.... god, the ending.

Sam's heartache over killing Madison was perfect, and devastating. I was so pleased that he actually did it, though-- that he followed through on the hard choice rather than pawning it off on Dean. Adn then part of me wished he had let Dean do it instead, because Sam had a bond with that girl and it was just too much.

My takeaway from that scene was along the lines of Dean's perspective: "See now what you asked me to do? Do you see why I couldn't?"

But reading other people's journals, the different question of Sam's perspective came up: "I hate this, and it's destroying me to do it, but it still has to be done, no matter what. Are you watching this, Dean? I expect you to do the same."

Now I'm more angsty than ever over the implications of that.

What Sam doesn't seem to see, even now, is that for Dean there's the rest of the world and there's SamAndDad. They're completely separate entities, and he doesn't even try to treat them the same.

For Sam, there's family and there's this larger humanity. Both are more connected to each other than they are for Dean, because Sam can't help that. He's walking sympathy, and I love that about him. So does everyone the two of them meet-- it's practically written on his furrowed little forehead.

After that awful, awful gunshot, you know there was hug at the end and a lot of falling apart. *waits for someone to write that scene*


For some reason, that trip to imdb.com inspired me to see who has my same birthday, and the answer is as usual: practically nobody!

Actually, there's more than I thought: John Lithgow (gah!), Evander Holyfield, and Ty Pennington (ack!), and Lionel Hollins of the NBA-title-winning Trailblazers team. On the flip side, Edna St. Vincent Millay and Walt Kelly died on my birthday. Otherwise, it's a neverending trip through the land of "Huh? Who are these people?" A lot of Eastern Europeans in those lists... I guess they've found a good way to handle those cold winters.

Now, the very next day is considerably busier: Rimbaud, Charles Ives (composer), Bela Lugosi (!), Art Buchwald, Mickey Mantle, Tom Petty, Viggo Mortensen, and it dies down after that except for Alona Tal, but seriously world-- WTF?

Well, that's me, I guess. Always slightly out of step! :D



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The Good, The Bad and The Lana: rome vorenus niobe pale bluethelana on March 23rd, 2007 09:07 pm (UTC)
Heh, my birthday buddies are Vin Diesel and Priyanka Chopra.

Sooooo watched any John Doe or Northshore yet?
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 09:51 pm (UTC)
Vin Diesel! I think you may have it worse than me. :0

I haven't watched any of the vids yet-- I lost the last two weeks to the Prison Break Fic Exchange, and this week to the two movies I rented for the weekend that we didn't finish until Wednesday.

My husband has got to stop going to be at 9:30. It's cutting into our lifestyle!
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: Blade Kristathelana on March 23rd, 2007 09:55 pm (UTC)
BTW, on Sweet Charity it says that your deadline is April 30th? *is confused*

Though, all you guys already are way too expensive for me anyway. :)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 10:28 pm (UTC)
I'm having a hard time finding the end-date on that site too, BUT I've been told tomorrow is it, and I can definitely see the count-down clock on one of the displays (just over a day is left!).

So I think tomorrow is it! Sometime near the "end" of tomorrow, but on the 24-hour clock of international time, it's hard to know when "end" is. ;)
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: 1ww blue nostalgia ominousthelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:30 pm (UTC)
How odd!

Heh, I wonder whether I should bid for you just to drive the price up :D But I don't even know what I would make you write if I did win! :D

Am I getting this right? Only the winner has to pay up and not everybody who bids, right?
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 10:40 pm (UTC)
Yes-- only the winner pays.

Right now my Beta services are going for cheap, and I'm wondering what anteka has planned for them-- unless I get to help sculpt a Plastic Winchester Theatre episode, which would be awesome!

Or maybe I'll be helping with a grant paper-- you just never know. :0
The Good, The Bad and The Lanathelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:43 pm (UTC)
Strange... did they really write to you that *your* action is ending? Maybe there is a chance that somebody else's auction is ending and they just sent a notice out to all members?

Are both of your auctions ending at the same time or if the fic one ending sooner since I think you put it up first?
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 10:45 pm (UTC)
All the bidding on ALL the offerings ends at the same time-- regardless of what it is.

So, the clock ends the bidding round for everything!

It's a "block auction."
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: 1ww walking with bats backsthelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:48 pm (UTC)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Then those deadline thingies on the "For Sale" page are mighty confusing!
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 10:53 pm (UTC)
They all got messed up somehow, and it would really be better to hide them.

I did post a comment to the organizer to see if she could put up the real deadline on the pages to make it obvious and unambigious.

Because I've been running on rumors and the fact that the countdown clock coincides with the rumors, and is definitely moving!
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: 1ww oooooooooooooothelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:57 pm (UTC)
Ah, I see the countdown clock now.

Maybe the deadlines were supposed to be for the person who wins when they get their stuff? Or the deadline by which they have to have told their person which stuff they want?

*looks at offerings*

It's a damn shame that graphics do so little for me. And obviously I need a beta even less than a story because I think it's rather unlikely that any of you are going to start beta-ing in German any time soon :D

Also, you, you! You didn't specify how long the story would be that the person would be getting like most of the others did!
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 11:30 pm (UTC)
You didn't specify how long the story would be that the person would be getting like most of the others did!
I actually didn't know that other people were doing that when I specified.

I'd be aiming for the 2000+ range, depending on what the person asked for. After all, people want their money's worth! Though things in that 5000+ word range take a long time for me to write, but for charity I'd do it. :D
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: book page priyankathelana on March 23rd, 2007 11:32 pm (UTC)
He,it will be fun to calculate a how much money per word count :D Whether you make let's say as much as your average newspaper reporter :D
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: 1ww confident sparringthelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:02 pm (UTC)
Heh, I just checked imdb and I found out that I *also* share my birthday with Kristen Bell alias Veronica Mars. :D

The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 10:29 pm (UTC)
:D I definitely have one of the more lame birthdays, in terms of "alignment" with famous-ness.

I have met exactly one person in my entire life who has the same birthday I do. Oddly enough, it was someone from my office. But that is among thousands of people I've met over time, so statistically I'm in the "mostly dead" zone on my date-- at least in this part of the world. ;)
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: 1ww happy girlfriendsthelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:32 pm (UTC)
My cousin keeps dating guys who have the same birthday as I do or have their birthday very close to mine. Apparently she's really into cancer guys :D

It's actually rather easy for me because that way I never have any troubles remembering their birthday.

(my family is terrible with birthdays. Both me and my brother have forgotten my mom's [boy was she pissed], my brother forgot mine and my dad and I both forgot sis-in-law's)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Venushalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 10:42 pm (UTC)
:D My husband can remember all his siblings' birthdays, but not his mother! What is up with that?

Fortunately, I remember her birthday.

He can't really forget mine, because his is also on the 19th day of a month, and that isn't that common for some reason. :0

We were thisClose to getting married on a 19th day, but that would have meant a Friday wedding. So we went for the 20th instead.
The Good, The Bad and The Lana: Blade Kristathelana on March 23rd, 2007 10:47 pm (UTC)
That's a lot like us. Bro and I also totally rely on sis-in-law to always remind us :D She is much better organized than either of us is :D

They actually got married rather thoughtfully on a day that is easy for me to remember. Exactly one month after my birthday (both the 18th). Maybe sis-in-law hoped I would remember and remind him on time in case he doesn't.

There is this famous story about they were at a friend's place like one week before their anniversary and my brother was bragging how he'll always remember his anniversary because they actually got it engraved on the wedding rings and he even took his ring off and showed it to them. And one week later? Yepp, forgot it anyway :D Even though he had just bragged about it one week earlier :D
Destinadestina on March 23rd, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC)
For Sam, there's family and there's this larger humanity. Both are more connected to each other than they are for Dean, because Sam can't help that. He's walking sympathy, and I love that about him. So does everyone the two of them meet-- it's practically written on his furrowed little forehead.

I love that about him, too, and I love that it colors everything he does, and I love that Dean understands it, even if he can't default to the same way of being.

Oh, boys.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on March 23rd, 2007 09:59 pm (UTC)
and I love that Dean understands it, even if he can't default to the same way of being.
I think Dean actually likes that about Sam, because he adores him and sweetness of heart is one of the things that's just quintessentially Sam. It makes Sam who he is.

Thinking about this more, I came back to the idea that "you get what you give." Sam is so much more open than Dean, so much friendlier and kind. Dean is guarded and closed off, and with that kind of behavior people trust him less and they treat him less well-- reinforcing his opinion that strangers should not be trusted.

I mean, it's not only that the boys are different. They each experience an entirely different context regarding the world, and that context is made in part by their own actions. There's irony in that, I'm sure.

One thing this has done is to make me reconsider what "social position" Dean had as a teenager or younger kid. We've always assumed (me included) that he was popular with the girls and with other kids-- because he's attractive and he comes off as confident.

Now I'm really starting to wonder if it was entirely different-- if he was always something of an outsider after adolescence, just someone who was marking his time in school until he could finally get out.

I think John (and the experience of having his mother torn away from him) made Dean really distrustful. And more and more, we see over time that Dean's social skills aren't just lacking because of how often he really doesn't give a damn-- much of the time, the problem instead seems to be that he's tone-deaf as to what's actually going on.

*gets even thinkier all over again*
Kronette: SPN-Dean pain without love from Huntedkronette on March 23rd, 2007 11:12 pm (UTC)
Now I'm really starting to wonder if it was entirely different-- if he was always something of an outsider after adolescence, just someone who was marking his time in school until he could finally get out.

The more I delve into my story, the more I see this. I see him as getting by, but keeping to himself. I don't really see him as the "ladies man" in high school. Kinda like my nephew; he's adorable, all these girls like him, but he's oblivious. I've had to tap him on the shoulder and tell him that some girl (usually a grade or two above him) is waving at him.

Gah. I get to watch "Roadkill" and "Heart" again tonight with loganecho. The sheer agony *eg*
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Diner Deanhalfshellvenus on March 26th, 2007 07:42 pm (UTC)
I see him as getting by, but keeping to himself. I don't really see him as the "ladies man" in high school.
That's what I'm seeing now too. I know that Jensen first thought of Dean as this totally cool chick-magnet, but I think over time the character has fleshed-out and changed from those original snapshots.

What we have instead is someone who is much more of a loner-- with men and women both. I didn't expect that, but more and more as I think about how John raised them and what Dean lost... it starts to make a lot of sense.
(Deleted comment)
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Samhalfshellvenus on March 26th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC)
i think sam wanted to be the one to do it because she asked him to and he just wanted to fulfil her last wish and not that he wanted to prove he could do it.
I think he was really torn there. No-one wants to kill someone for their potential evil (except Gordon), even if you know it's guaranteed that they're going to return to that evil state again and again. And she was a nice person whom Sam really, really liked.

To do it, even though it was killing him, because she'd asked and he knew it mattered to her... gah. Absolutely heartbreaking. *sniffle*
I'm for wine and the embrace of questionable womenmissyjack on March 24th, 2007 01:54 am (UTC)
"See now what you asked me to do? Do you see why I couldn't?"
"I hate this, and it's destroying me to do it, but it still has to be done, no matter what. Are you watching this, Dean? I expect you to do the same."
YES!

And the thing for me is Sam's strength here. In doing what she asks,what he knows must be done, not passing it to Dean. I think a lot of people see Sam as someone who is losing his innocence, but I see someon finding his strength.

And of course a line I am sure we'll hear echoed again later "this is what you have to do to save me"
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on March 26th, 2007 07:48 pm (UTC)
passing it to Dean. I think a lot of people see Sam as someone who is losing his innocence, but I see someon finding his strength.
The sad thing is, sometimes those two things are related! Becoming strong means leaving some of your innocence behind, in particular the hope that things will turn out all right without you taking action, or that it's okay to let someone else do the hard things. It's the natural evolution of growing up, but so, so not easy.

And of course a line I am sure we'll hear echoed again later "this is what you have to do to save me"
A concept that just angsts me to the core. Completely.
Sorrel, the artist formerly known as goddessleilasorrelchestnut on March 24th, 2007 05:03 am (UTC)
Incidentally, she also was on Smallville for a while, as a good Doctor who was Corrupted By Evil (aka Luthors) Oh Wait She Was Evil All Along. Which was actually a lot more fun that it sounds. And she's been in Painkiller Jane, which I watched all of ten seconds of... and about everything else. Ever. CSI:NY for a while, I know, but it's like she has to guest-star at least once in every show I watched.

I think I was the only one on the planet who wasn't affected by the crying scene. I couldn't sympathize with Madison at the end because I think she should have shot herself, and not begged Sam to do it. That wasn't "doing the right thing," it was cruel. I mean, I appreciated that she had the strength of will to understand what needed to be done, but she kinda fell down a little in my opinion of her as a character when she lost the strength that had made her so interesting as a character- right at that particular moment, the sticking point. And then the brothers in the other room, there was something weird with the camera angle or something, and I kept getting distracted by that and the fact that yeah, Sam's really not that attractive when he cries, he gets all blotchy, and so I didn't feel the scene like I probably should have. But the last few seconds got to me, too, despite the disconnect I'd been feeling up until then.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on March 26th, 2007 07:52 pm (UTC)
Incidentally, she also was on Smallville for a while, as a good Doctor who was Corrupted By Evil (aka Luthors)
That's right! I vaguely remember her from there. Haven't watched the other shows. It's remarkable how much she looks like Deborah van Valkenburgh, but thanks to the lack of a picture at imdb.com, I can't prove it to anyone. ;)

I couldn't sympathize with Madison at the end because I think she should have shot herself, and not begged Sam to do it. That wasn't "doing the right thing," it was cruel.
This is kind of how I see Sam's begging Dean to kill him if he turns evil too. There's likely to be some point in there where Sam would know that he was turning, and why in the hell would he put that burden on someone else?

But the last few seconds got to me, too, despite the disconnect I'd been feeling up until then.
Sam actually doing it (which previously he wouldn't have done) and knowing it'll devastate him even as he tells Dean to wait for him, and Dean's tear for how much that's going to hurt Sam and the parallels with his own fear of being in that position... guh. A very tight interplay of angst in those final 30 seconds of the show.
zora_sourit: Jenzora_sourit on March 26th, 2007 03:54 pm (UTC)

But reading other people's journals, the different question of Sam's perspective came up: "I hate this, and it's destroying me to do it, but it still has to be done, no matter what. Are you watching this, Dean? I expect you to do the same."

Now I'm more angsty than ever over the implications of that.


So what's your take on it? I'm a bit clueless myself. I don`t think we can totally compare both situations, but I'm really wondering what the writers want us to believe. I hope it doesn't mean that Dean is the weaker one or that one day he'll shoot Sam.
The Coalition For Disturbing Metaphors: Sam & Dean Genhalfshellvenus on March 26th, 2007 07:53 pm (UTC)
I hope it doesn't mean that Dean is the weaker one or that one day he'll shoot Sam.
I seriously hope that it doesn't come to that (God, that would be devastating).

But I fully expect the writers to torture us with the possibility and the brink a few times more. *sniffle*